Comments for Structural Insulated Panels http://sipbuilding.wordpress.com Home building, green building, structural insulated panels (SIP), SIP school Tue, 20 Oct 2009 00:01:07 +0000 http://wordpress.com/ hourly 1 Comment on Foam Core: EPS, XPS, and Polyurethane by peter mcknight http://sipbuilding.wordpress.com/2006/12/20/foam-core-eps-xps-and-polyurethane/#comment-3781 peter mcknight Tue, 20 Oct 2009 00:01:07 +0000 http://sipbuilding.wordpress.com/2006/12/20/foam-core-eps-xps-and-polyurethane/#comment-3781 What was the answer to the cementatious skinned panels question? What was the answer to the cementatious skinned panels question?

]]> Comment on Foam Core: EPS, XPS, and Polyurethane by Tim http://sipbuilding.wordpress.com/2006/12/20/foam-core-eps-xps-and-polyurethane/#comment-3717 Tim Fri, 22 May 2009 15:35:56 +0000 http://sipbuilding.wordpress.com/2006/12/20/foam-core-eps-xps-and-polyurethane/#comment-3717 It is not necessary, as EPS, and XPS are classified as "self-extinguishing". That is, once the flame source is removed, they quit burning. T It is not necessary, as EPS, and XPS are classified as “self-extinguishing”. That is, once the flame source is removed, they quit burning.

T

]]> Comment on Foam Core: EPS, XPS, and Polyurethane by Anna http://sipbuilding.wordpress.com/2006/12/20/foam-core-eps-xps-and-polyurethane/#comment-3716 Anna Fri, 22 May 2009 09:42:14 +0000 http://sipbuilding.wordpress.com/2006/12/20/foam-core-eps-xps-and-polyurethane/#comment-3716 In Europe HBCD(D) is used as a flame retardant in EPS and XPS, but it is a PBT substance (persistense, bioaccumulative, toxic). But according to some of these comments above it seems to me that flame retardant is not neessary in EPS/XPS, is it? In Europe HBCD(D) is used as a flame retardant in EPS and XPS, but it is a PBT substance (persistense, bioaccumulative, toxic). But according to some of these comments above it seems to me that flame retardant is not neessary in EPS/XPS, is it?

]]> Comment on Why Houses Rot by Ticrollopipse http://sipbuilding.wordpress.com/2006/11/29/why-houses-rot/#comment-3715 Ticrollopipse Thu, 21 May 2009 02:40:54 +0000 http://sipbuilding.wordpress.com/2006/11/29/why-houses-rot/#comment-3715 Good writing. Hope to visit once more Good writing. Hope to visit once more

]]> Comment on Don’t Forget the V in HVAC by Art Silver http://sipbuilding.wordpress.com/2006/11/30/don%e2%80%99t-forget-the-v-in-hvac/#comment-3708 Art Silver Wed, 18 Mar 2009 00:47:33 +0000 http://sipbuilding.wordpress.com/2006/11/30/don%e2%80%99t-forget-the-v-in-hvac/#comment-3708 Good article. People tend to thinkbigger is better, not knowing the result Good article. People tend to thinkbigger is better, not knowing the result

]]> Comment on Foam Core: EPS, XPS, and Polyurethane by Tim http://sipbuilding.wordpress.com/2006/12/20/foam-core-eps-xps-and-polyurethane/#comment-3707 Tim Sun, 15 Mar 2009 15:26:08 +0000 http://sipbuilding.wordpress.com/2006/12/20/foam-core-eps-xps-and-polyurethane/#comment-3707 Good article. Unfortunately, when we ask for the facts about a product from the manufacturer, we do not always get "the whole story". Having made choices for products on a number of contruction projects, I can attest to the following "truths": 1. Urethanes use a cyanide -cousin molecule for their reaction/expansion. This "isocyanurate" is listed as hazardous with the EPA, and is proven to cause health issues. 2. Because of the out-gassing of the cyanurate derivatives from the "bubbles" which form the urethane foam (which give it the insulating properties) the product loses 20-25% of it's insulation value. Industry estimates this process of out-gassing can continue for up to 5 years post manufacture. 3.This now impacts the HVAC system sizing - and NOT in a positive way. You cannot effectively over-size the HVAC system when the house built with urethane/iso-cyanurate panels is new, nor should you. So - as the house loses insulation value, the HVAC system can not make up for that, and thus - now the HVAC is undersized. Not very "efficient" for a material sold to us as "energy efficient" 4. The stated "40 cents per square foot of panel" is completely false. I have recieved numerous quotes for SIP panels for specific projects showing an average of 32% increase in cost for uerthane/iso-cyanurate panels. Period. 5.The flame test is as nebulous a test as is possible to even call a test. If one examines the smoke generated by the urethane or iso- panels, you find it is listed - by all governing authorities concerned with toxicity, flame spread, and smoke qualities (EPA, UL, CSA,ETL) - as one of the the most toxic tumescent materials on a jobsite. Flatly - the smoke form urethane or iso-cyanurate panels will kill you far faster than flames from any house fire. 6.When you do a side by side comparison between EPS foam, and Urethane or Iso-cyanurate what you find is this: A. 30 to 40% lower construction cost for EPS B. EPS is 1% petroleum and 99% AIR - that is it...AIR. NO out-gassing. Stable, un-changing R-values. C. If you have any real world based concerns about burn times, flame sread, and smoke toxicity - do REAL research. Ask the questions of someone OTHER than the manufacturer of the products in question. BUt really - the sheetrok in the home is the burntime fire codes concern themselves with. D. Realistically - any of the foams will work for home building. What is the total cost? What is the known stability of the stated R-values? If you are making a buying descision based on either R-value or flame spread - smoke - then YOU REALLY need to do a lot of homework. For my family, I chose EPS, because the drywall (gypsum, sheetrock) is the REAL flame spread barrier. Again - when you ask the questions of fire professionals, you get a much better picture of this entire scenario. T Good article.
Unfortunately, when we ask for the facts about a product from the manufacturer, we do not always get “the whole story”.
Having made choices for products on a number of contruction projects, I can attest to the following “truths”:
1. Urethanes use a cyanide -cousin molecule for their reaction/expansion. This “isocyanurate” is listed as hazardous with the EPA, and is proven to cause health issues.
2. Because of the out-gassing of the cyanurate derivatives from the “bubbles” which form the urethane foam (which give it the insulating properties) the product loses 20-25% of it’s insulation value. Industry estimates this process of out-gassing can continue for up to 5 years post manufacture.
3.This now impacts the HVAC system sizing – and NOT in a positive way. You cannot effectively over-size the HVAC system when the house built with urethane/iso-cyanurate panels is new, nor should you.
So – as the house loses insulation value, the HVAC system can not make up for that, and thus – now the HVAC is undersized. Not very “efficient” for a material sold to us as “energy efficient”
4. The stated “40 cents per square foot of panel” is completely false. I have recieved numerous quotes for SIP panels for specific projects showing an average of 32% increase in cost for uerthane/iso-cyanurate panels. Period.
5.The flame test is as nebulous a test as is possible to even call a test. If one examines the smoke generated by the urethane or iso- panels, you find it is listed – by all governing authorities concerned with toxicity, flame spread, and smoke qualities (EPA, UL, CSA,ETL) – as one of the the most toxic tumescent materials on a jobsite. Flatly – the smoke form urethane or iso-cyanurate panels will kill you far faster than flames from any house fire.
6.When you do a side by side comparison between EPS foam, and Urethane or Iso-cyanurate what you find is this:
A. 30 to 40% lower construction cost for EPS

B. EPS is 1% petroleum and 99% AIR – that is it…AIR. NO out-gassing. Stable, un-changing R-values.

C. If you have any real world based concerns about burn times, flame sread, and smoke toxicity – do REAL research. Ask the questions of someone OTHER than the manufacturer of the products in question. BUt really – the sheetrok in the home is the burntime fire codes concern themselves with.

D. Realistically – any of the foams will work for home building. What is the total cost? What is the known stability of the stated R-values? If you are making a buying descision based on either R-value or flame spread – smoke – then YOU REALLY need to do a lot of homework.
For my family, I chose EPS, because the drywall (gypsum, sheetrock) is the REAL flame spread barrier. Again – when you ask the questions of fire professionals, you get a much better picture of this entire scenario.
T

]]> Comment on Foam Core: EPS, XPS, and Polyurethane by Eric http://sipbuilding.wordpress.com/2006/12/20/foam-core-eps-xps-and-polyurethane/#comment-3589 Eric Wed, 03 Dec 2008 22:40:57 +0000 http://sipbuilding.wordpress.com/2006/12/20/foam-core-eps-xps-and-polyurethane/#comment-3589 Diane: It does seem bizarre to think that the cause of your sleepless nights would be caused by a SIP but you may not rule the though out completely. You may want to look into what type of adhesive the company used to stick the OSB onto the PolyStyrene. I know that in order to glue all of the OSB strands together as well as in other laminating processes they use phenol resourcenol or phenol fermaldehyde both of which are linked to a plethera of health problems. Diane:

It does seem bizarre to think that the cause of your sleepless nights would be caused by a SIP but you may not rule the though out completely. You may want to look into what type of adhesive the company used to stick the OSB onto the PolyStyrene. I know that in order to glue all of the OSB strands together as well as in other laminating processes they use phenol resourcenol or phenol fermaldehyde both of which are linked to a plethera of health problems.

]]> Comment on Are SIPs for real? by peter griswold http://sipbuilding.wordpress.com/2006/11/20/hello-world/#comment-3432 peter griswold Thu, 31 Jul 2008 23:27:23 +0000 #comment-3432 The plan for my next house. 19x80' second floor 19x60' first floor 19x20' attached garage under second floor 3.5' wide hall along the left side from fron living room to rear. 3.5' wide hall along the left side from stairs to master bedroom. 1 BR on first floor + 2 BR on second floor. How does SIP fit this setup? exterior walls? interior walls? second floor over rooms? second floor over garage? roof? The plan for my next house.
19×80′ second floor
19×60′ first floor
19×20′ attached garage under second floor
3.5′ wide hall along the left side from fron living room to rear.
3.5′ wide hall along the left side from stairs to master bedroom.
1 BR on first floor + 2 BR on second floor.
How does SIP fit this setup?
exterior walls? interior walls?
second floor over rooms? second floor over garage? roof?

]]> Comment on Post Your SIP House by Tikker Jones http://sipbuilding.wordpress.com/post-your-sips-house/#comment-3411 Tikker Jones Sun, 08 Jun 2008 17:15:03 +0000 http://sipbuilding.wordpress.com/post-your-sips-house/#comment-3411 The Pyramid House shown was constructed in 1999 by Wickiup Builders of Ennis Montana using 10" Structural Insulated Panels from Big Sky R-Control of Belgrade, Montana. This is the off grid home of Whitney Lake, an entrepenurial inventor of local renoun. An Alternative Energy Resource Instutute is currently being built next door to compliment the unusual style and energy of the Pyramid House. The Pyramid House shown was constructed in 1999 by Wickiup Builders of Ennis Montana using 10″ Structural Insulated Panels from Big Sky R-Control of Belgrade, Montana. This is the off grid home of Whitney Lake, an entrepenurial inventor of local renoun. An Alternative Energy Resource Instutute is currently being built next door to compliment the unusual style and energy of the Pyramid House.

]]> Comment on Foam Core: EPS, XPS, and Polyurethane by Different Foam Cores for SIPs http://sipbuilding.wordpress.com/2006/12/20/foam-core-eps-xps-and-polyurethane/#comment-3391 Different Foam Cores for SIPs Thu, 13 Mar 2008 15:04:30 +0000 http://sipbuilding.wordpress.com/2006/12/20/foam-core-eps-xps-and-polyurethane/#comment-3391 [...] Source. This entry was posted on Wednesday, March 12th, 2008 at 11:42 am and is filed under Basic Information, SIPs. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed. You can leave a response, or TrackBack URI from your own site. [...] [...] Source. This entry was posted on Wednesday, March 12th, 2008 at 11:42 am and is filed under Basic Information, SIPs. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed. You can leave a response, or TrackBack URI from your own site. [...]

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